Debate This
So did you all watch the Democratic Debates tonight? I was both pleased and a tad disappointed. The last time our good senators mixed it up on the debate floor, it was a time for partnership and warm fuzzies. Edwards had recently stepped out, the two remaining Dems were feeling magnanimous and were all about that united front. There was plenty of time for competitive discourse later.
Since then, primaries and caucuses have come and gone. The race is running close, but the presumed front runner is instead playing catch up, and her opponent is gathering up states like a kid winning marbles on a hot streak. Things are getting down to the wire, right? Naturally, I expected something of a lively dustup tonight.
Not so much. Or at least, not for long. They sparred a bit over health care, with Clinton interrupting the moderator and pushing ahead, but it wasn't too bad. People do want to know where they differ, and I don't blame her for wanting to get her point across on an issue she feels is a strength.
Things did get a little ugly on the Clinton side for a hot minute -- she hit Obama with that whole plagiarism accusation in a cheap shot kind of way:
If your candidacy is going to be about words, lifting whole phrases from somebody else's speeches is not change you can believe in, it's change you can Xerox.
She got booed for that one. Obama kept his cool and had a great response, which basically diffused it and put it to rest. I found her remark interesting, considering I'd just written about Clinton using Obama lines in her speeches, but hey, whatever.
She did end up recovering with a great closing comment, which I had to give her props for. However, I later found out that bloggers uncovered an uncanny similarity between that home run closer, and a line from one of Bill Clinton's 1992 speeches. Hmm. Now that's some sweet irony. Wonder if Bill will go after her for plagiarism?
Damn those pesky bloggers.
Obama, for his part, stayed steady and didn't go negative at all. He came off as very confident and looking like a leader. All in all, it was fairly civil, considering what's at stake. The news analysts made the point afterward that for the direction of the race to change dramatically, either Clinton needed to score big, or Obama needed to stumble, but neither happened. I guess as far as juicy campaign gossip we'll have to be content with the McCain lobbyist brouhaha.
So they both did well overall - not surprising. Clinton is usually expected to do well in debates, and Obama did better than ever, flying up that sheer face of the political learning curve. With wings.
Anyway, in this age of YouTube and news ad nauseum, I won't go into a blow by blow. In fact, on this debate night, I think I'll take a lighter tone and leave you with a reminder of debates past and presidents I-wish-he-was-past.
It won't be long now. Enjoy.
Wordsworth takes on GeeDubya
13 comments:
I'm pretty much on board with your debate analysis; the pundits all predicted high drama, but it seemed that the audience liked 'em both. If I had to declare a winner, I'd probably say that Barack narrowly won, only because he never got booed -- but Hillary's last response was a kicker.
That video? Hilarious. The split screen is a riot; watching his petulant little face twist up is always a joy, especially when one doesn't have to listen to all of his dumb-ass malapropisms.
We all watched what my 4-year old called the "next president movie" and I came away feeling good about my decision to vote for Obama. I thought his contextualizing the way the next president should deal with countries like Cuba and Iran (ie, since Bush was such an ass, we need to reach out more without preconditions) was pretty savvy.
And I liked the fact that in their closing statements, his was more about getting people involved to work together on problems. Hillary's was more, I've been blessed and want to bring you all up to my level. Combined with Obama's dig at her implications that his supporters have been "duped," it underscored a certain arrogance in her approach, which is what the left has been fighting forever now.
He will be past soon enough. Well not soon enough...
HAH! That was awesome. And the fact that kcb's 4 yr. old called the debate "The next President" movie is heeeelarious and adorable.
Frankly I was simply thrilled to see generally civil discourse that centered mostly on actual issues as opposed to trite bullshit..
I have actual hope for the first time in may a year.
Red: yes, they both did well -- so glad to be on the blue side where we have a decent choice either way. I really loved her last comment too, it was brilliantly done - which is why it chapped my ass to read that it was basically the same as one Bill had done before, ONLY because it came on the heels of her "lifting lines from other speeches" bit. I think that whole plagiarism charge backfired on her campaign, not just in the debate, but overall, which is a shame. The video was too good not to share.
KCB: Ha! Your kids are always coming up with gems, aren't they? Yes, back in the original debates, I thought Hillary's Cuba/Iran answer showed experience and forethought -- still think so -- but this time Obama explained a bit more, and I liked his reasoning. We're now in a position where we have to deal with the fact that much of the world hates us, to put it bluntly, and that may call for different measures to regain some trust and credibility.
I like the take on the closing comments, that's an interesting point. And yes, he was smart in how he handled the "has everyone been duped" deal, and
Whim: Yeah, I was over for this reign to be over 4 years ago. No, make that 7.
Hat: Isn't it? I'd love to see him in a real rap battle. Now that would be a great President Movie.
DL: Yes, I've been pretty impressed w/ that all around. I mean, there have been a few things here and there, but I think considering how close the race is, they've both shown a good face for the Democrats. I'm really pleased about that.
I'm surrounded by Republicans at work,and here is their new battle cry;
'Oh yeah?'..well,..Let The Democrats run the country.They'll just ruin the status quo,and THEN!..(in 8 years).. We'll be back on top!.just as soon as the country falls asleep at the wheel,and forgets that this is a democracy,and not a theocratic monarchy,and a whole new crop of Rush Limbaugh reactionaries comes of age,and god knows what fundamentalist freakin' fear mongering cretinous ,fascist,illiterate,,pander to the worst nightmares of the uninformed,God bless America,but screw Americans,Holy crap!!..We're screwed.
Sling: It's crazy! I keep hearing Repubs whining about how "we can't let the liberals get control and run the country into the ground! We'll be doomed!" What? Hello, where do they think we are now, and how the hell do they think we got here? Where's the logic? I'll tell you where, it's somewhere GeeDubya couldn't find with both hands and a map...
Cowbell, you have to realize much like the fundamentalist christianist thugs that are in charge of the republican party, they are delusional. They couldn't tell the truth, see a fact, recognize suffering if they were taken by the hand and shown first hand. They would blame somebody else.
I just love how people who created the problems, now wail and complain about the problems they created in the first place.
Do you think that on some level Hillary in her closing statement recognized that this might be the end of her presidential aspirations, at least for the time being?
Oh and one more thing: the video was pure genius. You never see Republicans running something like that. Ever. Of course, I don't think there are many Hip-Hop Republicans to begin with! hahahahaha
RG: Hip-hop Republican? Come on now ... that makes about as much sense as a Log Cabin Republican.
Do you think that on some level Hillary in her closing statement recognized that this might be the end of her presidential aspirations, at least for the time being?
I don't know ... a lot of people are saying that, could be. It came across to me that she was just trying to show her human side, show she could reach across to connect, be the bigger person? Texas and Ohio will tell, though...
And yeah, they're delusional alright -- I forced myself to watch a Repub last night spouting off about "Liberal Facism", going on about how the New Deal robbed Americans of their independence and was insulting, as it implied that Americans can't do for themselves.
I'm still for Obama, although I'll vote Hillary over McWhatever without qualm.
In her defense, I think the idea of a 'co-presidency' with Bill Clinton having significant input is a positive factor (it's her most appealing trait-to me, anyway) and can't understand why it's seen as such a 'minus'.
Bill was good at his job and you want competent advisers...look what happens when cronyism runs amok.
Heckuva job!
Allan -- Yes, I agree. There is a lot I like about Hillary, and I think her 8 years as First Lady is very valuable experience. There are a lot of things about her that have been cast as "minuses", which I don't think necessarily are.
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